WSLCB - Work Group - Cannabinoid Science - Public Meeting
(December 1, 2022) - Summary

Alchemist Workshop - Cannabinoid Science Work Group
[ Event Details ]

At their inaugural meeting, work group members introduced themselves, shared their research interests, and developed some structure for the group.

Here are some observations from the Thursday December 1st Washington State Liquor and Cannabis Board Cannabinoid Science Work Group (WSLCB - Work Group - Cannabinoid Science) Public Meeting.

My top 3 takeaways:

  • Board Chair David Postman and other agency leaders welcomed the work group members and laid out challenges regulators had been having around cannabinoid policy (audio - 6m, WSLCB video).
    • Greeting work group members, Postman told them he "really like[d] the idea of having a group like you all, who are hearing what we're struggling with.” Having served on the board for “not quite two years as chair,” he still felt as though he was acclimating to cannabis policymaking. Postman explained how in 2021 staff were “debating some new development, and thought we had come to a consensus on how to approach [it] - there was something even newer approaching that we had to also worry about, and that feeling of, just sort of constant evolution and revolution has not slowed at all.” He’d read in “cannabis media around the country and around the world” that “all regulators are struggling with the same things.”
    • Because agency leaders had to both “educate board members, [and] then go to the legislature and educate politicians on the fast moving science behind this,” Postman said “decisions are made by people who know less than you all, and frankly, a lot of them are made by people who know less than I do.” He was looking to science as a “connective tissue” for lawmakers, who often inquired as to “what does the science say?” Hopeful officials could “lean on your expertise,” Postman mentioned that “working collaboratively and transparently” were key values he wanted members to embrace. If the group could help the board and agency leaders “keep up to date more on what's going on,” he expected that WSLCB staff could take that understanding into a system centered on “regulating for the public safety and the public health as well as wanting a robust industry.”
    • Additionally, Postman recognized that—with no federal reform on cannabis markets expected in 2023—regulators were pushed to ask themselves, “Do we set up a system of our own…or is it time to think about what are the universal…scientific standards for some of these things.” Explaining that because “no two [board members] can be in a meeting together unless it's an advertised public meeting,” Postman relayed that halfway through their meeting Board Member Jim Vollendroff would join the discussion as Postman left “because he also has a great interest in this.” 
    • Policy and Rules Manager Kathy Hoffman provided a “nutshell version of how we got here,” describing cannabinoid regulations as something at the “forefront of cannabis regulation for quite some time, and specifically in the last couple of years.” The agency had attempted to offer legislation in 2022, she noted, and officials had been attempting to “decide how we regulate cannabinoids, how we regulate THC [tetrahydrocannabinol], and we learned along the way that there's a lot we don't know.” Hoffman reported that “we crafted this group…based off of a piece of legislation that one of our Senators introduced last year that didn't move in the last session” and she had cast a “broad net in bringing everyone together” (audio - 1m, WSLCB video).
    • Justin Nordhorn, Director of Policy and External Affairs, noted that “we've had a lot of interest in this. When we put the call out for applications, we had national and international interest” in participating. He thanked Hoffman for leading the group, optimistic “we can make some informed decisions” with their input (audio - 2m, WSLCB video).
    • Vollendroff joined around 30 minutes into the meeting, sharing his background in public health policy, treatment, and recovery before remarking he was “super excited about this science work group.” He was particularly interested in finding out how to “use good solid research to implement evidence-based policymaking.” He looked forward to being more engaged at their future meetings, adding that “I'm also a person with lived experience, meaning I'm in recovery from substance use disorder, and I bring that background and experience to the conversation and table” which he felt was “an important voice that needs to be a part of the conversation” (audio - 2m, WSLCB video).
  • The 15 work group members included participants from past WSLCB science-oriented events as well as new researchers and industry stakeholders who introduced themselves, shared relevant expertise, “and the question that interests you most” about cannabinoids.
    • Hoffman, who would co-chair the work group, indicated that beyond her position at WSLCB she had “a PhD in Leadership and Change in complex regulatory systems with an emphasis on cannabis regulation” (audio - <1m, WSLCB video).
    • Taylor Carter, University of South CarolinaSchool of Medicine ColumbiaPostdoctoral Fellow and researcher (audio - 2m, WSLCB video)
      • “I work specifically with cannabinoids’ effect on the immune system,” Carter stated, focusing on “bone marrow differentiation and the effect that cannabinoids have within that system.” Researchers he worked with “focuse[d] on many disease and inflammatory models looking at cannabinoids’ effect” while “a lot of my work itself within the bone marrow focuses on a lot of the receptors that these cannabinoids bind to.” Carter looked at receptors in the body beside cannabinoid receptor type 1 (CB1) or type 2 (CB2), studying “things such as GPR 18 [G protein-coupled receptor 18], GPR 55 [G protein-coupled receptor 55], the TRP receptors [Transient receptor potential channels], as well as some of the other receptors that the cannabinoids kind of effect.” He labored around “whole immune side of research, but I focus specifically on cannabinoids” and had shared data on THC “to AAI, the American Association of Immunolog[ists] conference [this] year in Portland,” and would be “bringing THC data to SOT, which is Society of Toxicology, as well as AAI again.”
      • Carter had become especially interested in questions around “the effect of cannabinoids on development, whether that be fetal development, or childhood development brain development” and this “larger question based [around an] age that cannabis should be…recommended for, or allowed.”
    • Tracy Klein, WSU VancouverAssociate Professor and Center for Cannabis Policy, Research, and Outreach (WSU CCPRO) Assistant Director (audio - 1m, WSLCB video)
    • Holly Moody, Infinity Laboratories Senior Scientist (audio - 2m, WSLCB video).
      • Connecting from Arizona, Moody described how “most of my experience with cannabis…was in the forensic field” after getting “my master's degree in forensic science.” They had testified in court as an expert witness, and their fascination around cannabis “lies in the testing of it. Currently, I do the residual solvents testing here for compliance testing in Arizona up to Arizona DHS [Department of Health Services] limits” even as he found officials in that state “implement their regulations on the fly” rather than following a U.S. Pharmacopeia method.
      • The top question Moody had was “about the metabolites that they use to test for DUI because in Arizona, we have a unique situation…the DUI Law for cannabis says that the metabolite of cannabis, which comes out to be 11-Hydroxy-THC, is all they use because of the half-life of that…it's unique in the country.” He looked forward to the group coming “up with some solutions for the entire industry, potentially.”
    • Richard Sams, KCA Laboratories Scientific Director (audio - 3m, WSLCB video)
      • Sams told the group his lab was a “full service ISO accredited testing laboratory that services the hemp and cannabis markets.” He’d also been a professor of veterinary medicine at the Ohio State University, “developed bioanalytical methods, performed pharmacogenetic and drug metabolism studies, and I was responsible for testing samples collected from race horses for the presence of prohibited drugs.”
      • His lab had worked to develop expertise around “analysis of semi-synthetic derivatives of cannabidiol (CBD) that entered the market soon after passage of the 2018 Farm Bill” which legalized hemp and precipitated the emergence of a variety of synthesized compounds in consumer products. Sams reported that “we've identified deficiencies in some of the standard methods that are used for determining cannabinoids in plant material but these methods aren't sufficiently selective to differentiate the semi-synthetic materials from the phytocannabinoids, as well as the synthetic byproducts from this reaction with CBD.”
      • He added that he was particularly interested to “know more about the potential for drug/drug interactions between THC, and prescription, and over the counter medications.”
      • Hear Sams discuss cannabinoid science in videos on his Conference Cast Speakers Page.
    • William McLay, Ethos Cannabis Lead Medical Professional and licensed pharmacist (audio - 2m, WSLCB video)
      • Overseeing Ethos’ medical professionals “in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Maryland, and Massachusetts,” McLay complied with varying laws while his team worked “as a collective to try and treat our patients accordingly.” He’d seen “thousands of patients in consultations over the past few years” and consulted on treatments with patients and their physicians.
      • One question McLay considered “a hot button topic in [the] dispensary world right now, is cannabinol [CBN] with THC, and its effects on sleep. There's really no solid evidence out there for its effects, but anecdotally we've seen really good effects for people, for pain, for insomnia, and…I'd love to know why.”
    • Sarah Murray, Blue Mountain Heart to HeartCommunity Engagement Nurse Manager, Drug User Health Equity Programs (audio - 2m, WSLCB video)
      • Working with “substance use disorder folks” and others over decades, Murray saw that “therapeutic applications…of cannabinoids are vast but also in the current world that I'm in…there's just not enough known about cannabinoids” for her to make recommendations to patients. She was also concerned about “regulatory effects of cannabinoids,” specifically mentioning a need for better roadside impairment testing.
      • Murray looked forward to being part of a group of “people with a great, vast knowledge of compounds, and toxicology, and chemistry so that we can put it all together and actually come up with something that means something and having some guidelines” which could “tie that all together.”
    • Amber Wise, Medicine Creek AnalyticsScience Director (audio - 2m, WSLCB video)
      • With a PhD in chemistry, Wise had previously worked as a “chemistry professor” and “for an extraction company” before her role helping lead a private cannabis and hemp testing laboratory. In the preceding years, Medicine Creek staff had “done some peer review publications, and I'm hoping to set up another couple of research projects in the coming year.”
      • Her goal was to “move the science forward in the cannabis space” and she wanted answers to two questions: “how does the endocannabinoid system really work” and how could teachers “start to integrate this into medical educational programs.”
      • Wise was a member of the Washington State Cannabis Science Task Force (WA CSTF), several WSLCB panels on cannabinoids, and the Washington State Hemp in Food Task Force (WA Hemp in Food Task Force).
    • David Gang, WSU CCPRO Director and professor at the WSU Institute of Biological Chemistry (audio - 3m, WSLCB video)
      • With “going on 30 years” of studying medicinal plants, Gang had “published the first paper looking at how cannabinoids might be produced in the trichomes, looking at a genome-scale kind of a study.” More recent work was hampered by “because of regulatory issues” that had begun changing with hemp legalization, he indicated. Gang talked about his fascination as a plant biochemist with “how plants like Cannabis sativa make the interesting compounds that they do and what they're useful for.”
      • The question he said “came to my mind related to this group was: how do we think about regulating the components of this plant with how fast things are changing with regards to the science? And how do we understand how best to manage it?” Gang thought the goal should be “to protect the safety of the public and number two also help support an industry that is, for our state anyway, significant economic benefit.” Merging these interests “for the greater society good is going to be a positive thing,” he believed, and “science is going to be playing a critical role in being able to come up [with] answers to that.”
      • Hoffman recognized Gang as being among panelists at earlier WSLCB deliberative dialogue sessions, which she said led “up to where we are today.”
    • Alicja Binkowska, SWPS University in Warsaw researcher (audio - 2m, WSLCB video, written comments)
    • Jessica Tonani, Verda Bio CEO (audio - 2m, WSLCB video)
      • Coming from a "traditional biotech" background, Tonani said her company obtained the first research license issued by WSLCB and had studied the “plant fairly traditionally. We were one of the first to release a public genome of the cannabis plant,” and had partnered with Argonne National Laboratory “on the microbiome project of the plant, so knowing what bacteria naturally occur on the plant.” Tonani viewed the company as a bridge for universities that wanted to research cannabis, a schedule 1 federal substance.
      • Tonani’s top question was similar to Gang’s, wanting to know how to regulate a “diverse set of compounds with very different risk/reward” variables; “how do we set up a system that we regulate things that…have the potential of getting people high, and compounds that don't.”
      • Tonani was another cannabinoid deliberative dialogue participant and member of the WA Hemp in Food Task Force.
    • Ryan McLaughlin, WSU Department of Integrated Physiology and NeuroscienceAssistant Professor and WSU CCPRO researcher (audio - 3m, WSLCB video)
      • Specializing in “preclinical animal models to understand both acute and long-term effects of cannabis mostly on brain and behavior,” McLaughlin viewed his research focus as “inclined towards understanding long-term developmental effects of cannabis.” He conducted animal tests on the impact of self-administered vapor from “whole plant cannabis extracts” to “look at motivational properties of cannabis; look at brain mechanisms that drive problematic cannabis seeking behaviors in rodents” and the “long-term ramifications.” McLaughlin also investigated the impact of cannabis use during pregnancy “not just for developing offspring, but also use of cannabis during pregnancy for the mother and how cannabis use during pregnancy can interact with hormones to influence susceptibility for postpartum depressive-like symptoms.”
      • See a September 2020 legislative work session presentation by McLaughlin titled “Toward A More Translationally Relevant Model of Cannabis Use.”
    • Brad Douglass, Spoke Sciences Chief Regulatory Officer and Vice President of Chemistry (audio - 2m, WSLCB video)
      • Having a background in organic and medicinal chemistry “with some work in targeting drugs to the brain,” Douglass had worked for several cannabis and hemp companies in Washington state. “I've also spent some time as a lab director at a Washington state cannabis lab,” he said, and had over a decade experience with U.S. Food and Drug Administration (US FDA) “affairs, mostly foods and dietary supplements, but also some drugs.”
      • Douglass wanted to know more about the “natural abundance of less common stereoisomers, of THC molecules in particular, and their different pharmacology.”
      • Douglass participated as a panelist during multiple deliberative dialogues between 2021 and 2022, and served on the WA Hemp in Food Task Force.
    • Chris Beecher, natural products chemist (audio - 3m, WSLCB video)
      • Having taught at schools in Illinois, Michigan, and Florida, Beecher remarked that three years earlier he’d begun “quantitative analysis of cannabinoids” with researchers in Holland and had been familiar with the chemistry of the cannabis plant “for ages.”
      • His top question pertained to how “products are right now so poorly labeled when it comes to quantitation” of cannabinoids. He wanted an easy to understand label similar to the “concept of proof in alcohol…creating some sort of a simple scale that tells you what is actually in the end product. It is ridiculous to see something that says ‘I'm 99% THC, less than one percent CBD,’ without any concept as to what the percentage of that is in the entire material. So, every product actually has to be better labeled.”
      • Beecher added that he’d seen some benefit from the plant as CBD products had been a “great help” for his wife, who’d been “in terrible pain.”
    • Hoffman concluded the introductions by mentioning that Gillian Schauer, Cannabis Regulators Association (CANNRA) Executive Director and UW tobacco and cannabis researcher, was unable to attend, but “will be joining us in…future meetings” (audio - 1m, WSLCB video).
  • Agency staff reviewed the charter for the group, found a volunteer to act as co-chair, and planned their next steps.
    • Hoffman quickly went over a draft of the work group charter, which she said had been broadly constructed to provide the “flexibility that we thought was important for these discussions” (audio - 3m, WSLCB video).
      • She recognized the breadth of research questions already cited raised the potential to “take us down a lot of different roads.” This was something members could address by forming sub-groups, she commented, but the goal of their meetings was to be a “platform for scientific and data-driven discussion about cannabinoids.”
      • Hoffman explained that they’d gathered “together to talk about the issues that we’ll identify as important to this group in the next meeting” and that new people could be brought into the work group or subgroups if their expertise was needed.
      • The charter envisioned bi-monthly meetings, which Hoffman announced had been tentatively scheduled for February, April, June, August, October, and December which “does give time for subgroups if we want to have them.” She pledged to have agency staff “put notes together” following each meeting and email them to members as part of a “meeting packet at least two weeks before” the next work group meeting which would also be posted “on our outward facing web page.”
      • Hoffman remarked that additional input on the charter from members could be discussed at their next meeting.
    • Hoffman asked for a volunteer to act as co-chair to assist her within the work group, and Moody ultimately stepped into the role (audio - 2m, WSLCB video).
    • Hoffman then confirmed the next meeting had been scheduled for February 1st before inviting other agency leaders to give closing remarks (audio - 1m, WSLCB video).
      • Thanking attendees, Nordhorn said he anticipated a “really robust conversation over the next year” around the topic and staff were “looking forward to this experience” (audio - <1m, WSLCB video).
      • Hoffman echoed Nordhorn’s sentiments, and closed the meeting several minutes ahead of schedule (audio - 1m, WSLCB video).

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